Margaret Morley Niland died 28 Oct 1933 while living in their Mole St home in Philadelphia. James died less than 3 months later, 13 Jan 1934. He was living in the Parrish St. home of his sister in law, Margaret Niland, Patrick's widow.
Tuesday, September 9, 2014
Tombstone Tuesday-James and Margaret Niland
Last week I posted about finding the tombstone for Patrick Niland and his family at Holy Cross Cemetery. This week I am writing about Patrick's brother, James. I found the stone for James and his wife the same day. The citation for this is: Holy Cross Cemetery (Yeadon, Delaware County, Pennsylvania), James and Margaret Niland marker, section 61, range 13, lot 21, photographed by author, 27 August 2014.
Margaret Morley Niland died 28 Oct 1933 while living in their Mole St home in Philadelphia. James died less than 3 months later, 13 Jan 1934. He was living in the Parrish St. home of his sister in law, Margaret Niland, Patrick's widow.
Margaret Morley Niland died 28 Oct 1933 while living in their Mole St home in Philadelphia. James died less than 3 months later, 13 Jan 1934. He was living in the Parrish St. home of his sister in law, Margaret Niland, Patrick's widow.
Tuesday, September 2, 2014
Tombstone Tuesday:Patrick Niland Family
I have been working on the Nilands lately and last week after finding death certificates for Patrick Niland and a couple of his babies I made a trip back out to Holy Cross Cemetery to see if there was a headstone for him. I was so happy when I found it . The citation for this is: Holy Cross Cemetery(Yeadon, Delaware County, Pennsylvania), Patrick J. Niland Family marker, section 34, row 12, lot 40, grave 1, photographed by author, 27 Aug 2014.
Also buried here are Patrick's wife, Margaret Flynn Niland, Margaret's brother, Thomas Flynn, baby Patricia Niland, baby Patrick Niland, Margaret Kelly, Sarah C. Niland Mosser, Charles M. Mooser and baby Frances M. Mooser. Sarah is Patrick and Margaret's only child to live to adulthood. I have not identified Margaret Kelly as yet. According to the cemetery record baby Patrick, baby Patricia and Margaret were all buried 21 May 1929. I found Patrick's death certificate, he was stillborn 9 Feb 1904, he was buried 10 Feb 1904 in Holy Cross Cemetery. The citation for this record is:"Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Death Certificates, 1803-1915," index and images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JDGP-LTG:accessed 17 Aug 2014), Patrick J. Niland in entry for Patrick Niland, 09 Feb 1904; citing cn 4005, Department of Records; FHL microfilm 1003725. Then on Ancestry I found the Holy Cross Burial record showing the burial date of 10 Feb 1904 matching the death certificate, but there was a notation above his name that he was "removed to 34-12-40 on May 21, 1929". The citation for this record is: Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania and New Jersey, Church and Town Records, 1708-1985([database on-line]. accessed 17 Aug 2014, cited from Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania:Historical Society of Pennsylvania. So it looks like these three were moved to this grave after Patrick J. Niland died. I have not found death records for baby Patricia or Margaret Kelly so I don't know when they actually died. I did find another baby, Mary, who was stillborn in 1907 but her records do not indicate that she was moved. The citation for her death certificate is:"Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Death Certificates, 1803-1915,"index and images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JFC7-RC3: accessed17 Aug 2014), Patrick J. Niland in entry for Mary Nilau, 19 Oct 1907; citing cn 26062, Department of Records; FHL microfilm 1402910. I will continue to look for Patricia and Margaret and see what I find.
Also buried here are Patrick's wife, Margaret Flynn Niland, Margaret's brother, Thomas Flynn, baby Patricia Niland, baby Patrick Niland, Margaret Kelly, Sarah C. Niland Mosser, Charles M. Mooser and baby Frances M. Mooser. Sarah is Patrick and Margaret's only child to live to adulthood. I have not identified Margaret Kelly as yet. According to the cemetery record baby Patrick, baby Patricia and Margaret were all buried 21 May 1929. I found Patrick's death certificate, he was stillborn 9 Feb 1904, he was buried 10 Feb 1904 in Holy Cross Cemetery. The citation for this record is:"Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Death Certificates, 1803-1915," index and images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JDGP-LTG:accessed 17 Aug 2014), Patrick J. Niland in entry for Patrick Niland, 09 Feb 1904; citing cn 4005, Department of Records; FHL microfilm 1003725. Then on Ancestry I found the Holy Cross Burial record showing the burial date of 10 Feb 1904 matching the death certificate, but there was a notation above his name that he was "removed to 34-12-40 on May 21, 1929". The citation for this record is: Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania and New Jersey, Church and Town Records, 1708-1985([database on-line]. accessed 17 Aug 2014, cited from Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania:Historical Society of Pennsylvania. So it looks like these three were moved to this grave after Patrick J. Niland died. I have not found death records for baby Patricia or Margaret Kelly so I don't know when they actually died. I did find another baby, Mary, who was stillborn in 1907 but her records do not indicate that she was moved. The citation for her death certificate is:"Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Death Certificates, 1803-1915,"index and images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JFC7-RC3: accessed17 Aug 2014), Patrick J. Niland in entry for Mary Nilau, 19 Oct 1907; citing cn 26062, Department of Records; FHL microfilm 1402910. I will continue to look for Patricia and Margaret and see what I find.
Saturday, June 28, 2014
Patrick McCarry
A couple of weeks ago I found a Patrick McCarey on Ancestry in the "Index to New England Naturalization Petitions, 1791-1906". I was excited, things seemed to fit. It had the address in Naugatuck, CT. They lived in Naugatuck in 1871 when their daughter Mary was born. The location of the court was Waterbury, they lived in Waterbury, neighboring town to Naugatuck, in 1873 when their son James, my great grandfather, was born. But the date of the Naturalization was 26 Mar 1867. Could this be my Patrick McCarry???? The citation for this index is: National Archives and Records Administration (NARA); Washington, D.C.; Index to New England Naturalization Petitions, 1791-1906 (M1299); Microfilm Serial: M1299; Microfilm Roll:24
In the 1870 census, Patrick and his wife Margaret were living in Philadelphia. Their son Hugh had been born 3 months before the census and was born in Pennsylvania. But a year later they were in Naugatuck, CT. And from what I had found up until now, was they had 3 children while living in Connecticut, the 3rd being Patrick born in 1879 and then went to New York, as in the 1880 census. And they had another daughter, Margaret, born in New York in 1881. Then went back to Philadelphia settling in Manayunk and had another son, John, in 1884.
Then a couple of days after finding the Naturalization index I found them in the 1875 New York State Census. They were living in Orange County. So they had left Connecticut and went to New York and then back to Connecticut where Patrick was born in 1879, then back to New York. So maybe it is possible that Patrick lived in Naugatuck and was Naturalized there before going to Philadelphia and marrying Margaret and having Hugh. The citation for this census is: Ancestry.com New York, State Census, 1875(database on-line), cited from Population Census of the state of New York, for 1875, Orange County, town of Montgomery, p. 15, dwelling 108, family 130, the Patrick McCar[r]y Family, Microfilm. New York State Archives, Albany, New York.
So I looked up where the actual Naturalization records for Connecticut were and found it is at NARA -Boston. I called to see about the record and was told to send an email with the information. I heard back that they found the record for Patrick McCarry and yesterday I received the record in an email.They did warn me that there was not much genealogical information in the record but I was hoping that there would be enough to show that it was the right person. Well in reading it over and over again I am still now totally sure that it is for my Patrick McCarry so I will have to keep working on it and see if I can find proof that it is him or not!!! The citation for this record is: New Haven County, Connecticut, city Court held in the City of Waterbury, City Court Naturalization Record Book Vol. 2, pg. 268, Patrick McCarey, 1867, National Archives and Records Administration(NARA)-Boston.
So I will start with what I have and keep on looking!
In the 1870 census, Patrick and his wife Margaret were living in Philadelphia. Their son Hugh had been born 3 months before the census and was born in Pennsylvania. But a year later they were in Naugatuck, CT. And from what I had found up until now, was they had 3 children while living in Connecticut, the 3rd being Patrick born in 1879 and then went to New York, as in the 1880 census. And they had another daughter, Margaret, born in New York in 1881. Then went back to Philadelphia settling in Manayunk and had another son, John, in 1884.
Then a couple of days after finding the Naturalization index I found them in the 1875 New York State Census. They were living in Orange County. So they had left Connecticut and went to New York and then back to Connecticut where Patrick was born in 1879, then back to New York. So maybe it is possible that Patrick lived in Naugatuck and was Naturalized there before going to Philadelphia and marrying Margaret and having Hugh. The citation for this census is: Ancestry.com New York, State Census, 1875(database on-line), cited from Population Census of the state of New York, for 1875, Orange County, town of Montgomery, p. 15, dwelling 108, family 130, the Patrick McCar[r]y Family, Microfilm. New York State Archives, Albany, New York.
So I looked up where the actual Naturalization records for Connecticut were and found it is at NARA -Boston. I called to see about the record and was told to send an email with the information. I heard back that they found the record for Patrick McCarry and yesterday I received the record in an email.They did warn me that there was not much genealogical information in the record but I was hoping that there would be enough to show that it was the right person. Well in reading it over and over again I am still now totally sure that it is for my Patrick McCarry so I will have to keep working on it and see if I can find proof that it is him or not!!! The citation for this record is: New Haven County, Connecticut, city Court held in the City of Waterbury, City Court Naturalization Record Book Vol. 2, pg. 268, Patrick McCarey, 1867, National Archives and Records Administration(NARA)-Boston.
So I will start with what I have and keep on looking!
Sunday, May 25, 2014
Surprise Finds in the Pennsylvania Death Certificates, 1906-1924
Over the last few days I have been going back and finding some of the PA death certificates on Ancestry that I didn't look for when the group first came out. These are mostly certificates that I already had sent for so I kinda forgot about looking for them. Well this morning I remembered that I had not looked for the certificate for my Grand Uncle, "Baby" James. This was what my grandmother always called him when she talked about him. That was most likely because they had another son that they also called James(this was my grandfather's name). Anyway, I had sent for "Baby" James' death certificate when I found he was buried with his Gunther grandparents and that gave me his death date.
The citation for this certificate is:Pennsylvania Department of Health, death certificate no. 73682 (1922), James McCarry; Bureau of Vital Statistics, New Castle.
So on the search for this record another record shows up with the same parents. Surprise I see a Death Certificate for Bridget Marie McCarry. I always thought it was funny that my Nana never seemed to talk of this baby, it was my mother that told me about this baby that had the name Marie and that was why my mother's middle name was Marie. So I had not found anything on this baby before. According to the certificate she was premature and lived 2 days. And it said that she is buried in the same cemetery as James but she was not on the list as buried in that grave. I will have to look into that. the citation for this certificate is:Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924, No. 82841(stamped), Bridget Marie McCarry entry, died 5 Aug 1924; digital image: accessed 25 May 2014; citing Pennsylvania (State) Death certificates, 1906-1963 Series 11.90(1,905 cartons), Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. http;//www.phmc.state.pa.us/
But this was not the only surprise I found this morning. My McCarry great grandparents, James F. and Bridget had 6 children that I knew about. Last year I was finding Philadelphia birth records at the Family History Center. I found the one for their youngest, Francis, who was born in 1906. This was the first and only one of the records that I found that had the number of children the mother had and how many living. This certificate told me that Bridget had 7 children and 6 were living. So before I was doing this I had found a death record on Family Search that I had put aside. Everything matched up but it had the father's name as John McCarry instead of James, and I didn't know about the 7th child. But I went back and looked at this and thought this is most likely their first child not Margaret as I had thought. So this morning when I was pulling over the death certificate for Bridget Marie I see another record listed on the search for Mary McCarry with the my great grandparents listed as the parents? When I opened it I found they had an 8th child, Mary was stillborn in Sep of 1920, this was the month before my grandparents were married. Mary is also buried at Holy Cross cemetery so I think I need to make another trip to find out about these two graves. The citation for this certificate is: Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924, No. 99899(stamped), Mary McCarry entry, died 19 Sep 1920; digital image: accessed 25 May 2014; citing Pennsylvania (State) Death certificates, 1906-1963 Series 11.90(1,905 cartons), Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. http;//www.phmc.state.pa.us
So I guess it will be another trip to Holy Cross Cemetery to check out where Bridget Marie and Mary McCarry are buried.
And once again I find, Start with what you have and keep on looking, you never know what you will find.
The citation for this certificate is:Pennsylvania Department of Health, death certificate no. 73682 (1922), James McCarry; Bureau of Vital Statistics, New Castle.
So on the search for this record another record shows up with the same parents. Surprise I see a Death Certificate for Bridget Marie McCarry. I always thought it was funny that my Nana never seemed to talk of this baby, it was my mother that told me about this baby that had the name Marie and that was why my mother's middle name was Marie. So I had not found anything on this baby before. According to the certificate she was premature and lived 2 days. And it said that she is buried in the same cemetery as James but she was not on the list as buried in that grave. I will have to look into that. the citation for this certificate is:Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924, No. 82841(stamped), Bridget Marie McCarry entry, died 5 Aug 1924; digital image: accessed 25 May 2014; citing Pennsylvania (State) Death certificates, 1906-1963 Series 11.90(1,905 cartons), Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. http;//www.phmc.state.pa.us/
But this was not the only surprise I found this morning. My McCarry great grandparents, James F. and Bridget had 6 children that I knew about. Last year I was finding Philadelphia birth records at the Family History Center. I found the one for their youngest, Francis, who was born in 1906. This was the first and only one of the records that I found that had the number of children the mother had and how many living. This certificate told me that Bridget had 7 children and 6 were living. So before I was doing this I had found a death record on Family Search that I had put aside. Everything matched up but it had the father's name as John McCarry instead of James, and I didn't know about the 7th child. But I went back and looked at this and thought this is most likely their first child not Margaret as I had thought. So this morning when I was pulling over the death certificate for Bridget Marie I see another record listed on the search for Mary McCarry with the my great grandparents listed as the parents? When I opened it I found they had an 8th child, Mary was stillborn in Sep of 1920, this was the month before my grandparents were married. Mary is also buried at Holy Cross cemetery so I think I need to make another trip to find out about these two graves. The citation for this certificate is: Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924, No. 99899(stamped), Mary McCarry entry, died 19 Sep 1920; digital image: accessed 25 May 2014; citing Pennsylvania (State) Death certificates, 1906-1963 Series 11.90(1,905 cartons), Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. http;//www.phmc.state.pa.us
So I guess it will be another trip to Holy Cross Cemetery to check out where Bridget Marie and Mary McCarry are buried.
And once again I find, Start with what you have and keep on looking, you never know what you will find.
Saturday, April 19, 2014
Finding O'Donnell's in Pennsylvania Death Certificates
I have been having such fun with the newly released Pennsylvania Death Certificates 1906-1924 on Ancestry. I have been preparing for this release ever since the index was put on the PA vital records page. I have pages of lists of the people I have looked up on the index getting the place they died and the exact date and the certificate number. Some of them I sent for along the way because I just could not wait to see the information to prove something that was nagging at me. But most I have saved until now.
Yesterday morning before going to work I wanted to look for at least one. My Paternal second great grandmother, Mary McGee O'Donnell. I had narrowed down when I thought she had died by census records and directory listings. I figured it was between 1914 and 1920. So I looked on the index and found 3 Mary O'Donnell's that died in that time period in Hazleton and Luzerne County. One in 1914 and the other 2 in 1915. So I let that one wait for the Ancestry release because I did not want to order all three knowing that hopefully only one would be the right one. Well the first one I found was the right one. I saw the informant was Mrs Andrew McKelvey and I knew it was right. That was her daughter Mary's married name. Unfortunately it only gave me her father's name and not her mother's and of course only that she came from Ireland, not the place in Ireland! I was so excited that I posted it on Face Book real fast. The citation for Mary's certificate is:
Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924 [database on-line]. No. 48964 (stamped), Mary O'Donnell entry, died 8 May 1914, digital image: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. accessed 18 April 2014;
citing Pennsylvania (State). Death certificates, 1906–1963. Series 11.90 (1,905 cartons). Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record Group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/
Then I thought, I have time to look up another one before I go. So I looked for Mary's grandson, my Great Uncle, Manus O'Donnell. I had the family story that he had been killed in a mining accident and I had a date from the records at Saint Gabriel's Church in Hazleton of when a Manus O'Donnell died. When I looked in the index I only found one Manus O'Donnell and the date was a couple of days off so I had saved it. I found it right away and as soon as I saw his parent's names I knew it was right. Well both the indexer and the person who wrote the certificate had a problem spelling his father's name, Cornelius, but I knew it was correct. He was 21 years old and died from a skull fracture received in a mining accident! The citation for Manus' certificate is:
Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924 [database on-line]. No. 97700 (stamped), Manus O'Donnell entry, died 15 Oct 1914, digital image: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. accessed 18 April 2014;
citing Pennsylvania (State). Death certificates, 1906–1963. Series 11.90 (1,905 cartons). Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record Group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/
So today I wanted to see if I could find one of the three children that I figured out that Cornelius and his wife Cecilia had lost. The first two were before 1900 so they will not be in there, but the third was before 1910. So I just put in the O'Donnell surname to see where it would take me. I figured it was dangerous because O'Donnell is one of those names that is like the Irish version of Smith, well over 6,000 records came up. I had to go through a few pages but I found Marguerte O'Donnell. She was 6 months old when she died 1 August 1908, from Infant Cholera. The citation for Marguerte is:
Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924 [database on-line]. No. 76226 (stamped), Marguerte O'Donnell entry, died 1 Aug 1908, digital image: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. accessed 19 April 2014
citing Pennsylvania (State). Death certificates, 1906–1963. Series 11.90 (1,905 cartons). Records of the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Record Group 11. Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/
So I still have the VanBilliard's, the Fitzpatrick's and some others, but off to a good start!
Yesterday morning before going to work I wanted to look for at least one. My Paternal second great grandmother, Mary McGee O'Donnell. I had narrowed down when I thought she had died by census records and directory listings. I figured it was between 1914 and 1920. So I looked on the index and found 3 Mary O'Donnell's that died in that time period in Hazleton and Luzerne County. One in 1914 and the other 2 in 1915. So I let that one wait for the Ancestry release because I did not want to order all three knowing that hopefully only one would be the right one. Well the first one I found was the right one. I saw the informant was Mrs Andrew McKelvey and I knew it was right. That was her daughter Mary's married name. Unfortunately it only gave me her father's name and not her mother's and of course only that she came from Ireland, not the place in Ireland! I was so excited that I posted it on Face Book real fast. The citation for Mary's certificate is:
Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924 [database on-line]. No. 48964 (stamped), Mary O'Donnell entry, died 8 May 1914, digital image: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. accessed 18 April 2014;
Then I thought, I have time to look up another one before I go. So I looked for Mary's grandson, my Great Uncle, Manus O'Donnell. I had the family story that he had been killed in a mining accident and I had a date from the records at Saint Gabriel's Church in Hazleton of when a Manus O'Donnell died. When I looked in the index I only found one Manus O'Donnell and the date was a couple of days off so I had saved it. I found it right away and as soon as I saw his parent's names I knew it was right. Well both the indexer and the person who wrote the certificate had a problem spelling his father's name, Cornelius, but I knew it was correct. He was 21 years old and died from a skull fracture received in a mining accident! The citation for Manus' certificate is:
Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924 [database on-line]. No. 97700 (stamped), Manus O'Donnell entry, died 15 Oct 1914, digital image: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. accessed 18 April 2014;
So today I wanted to see if I could find one of the three children that I figured out that Cornelius and his wife Cecilia had lost. The first two were before 1900 so they will not be in there, but the third was before 1910. So I just put in the O'Donnell surname to see where it would take me. I figured it was dangerous because O'Donnell is one of those names that is like the Irish version of Smith, well over 6,000 records came up. I had to go through a few pages but I found Marguerte O'Donnell. She was 6 months old when she died 1 August 1908, from Infant Cholera. The citation for Marguerte is:
Ancestry.com. Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1924 [database on-line]. No. 76226 (stamped), Marguerte O'Donnell entry, died 1 Aug 1908, digital image: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. accessed 19 April 2014
So I still have the VanBilliard's, the Fitzpatrick's and some others, but off to a good start!
Thursday, February 13, 2014
Who were the parents of Helen Catherine Carrigan Natale?
Helen Catherine Carrigan Natale was my maternal grandmother's sister. I always remember my Nana talking about Aunt Helen that lived in Brooklyn and in my distant memory I remember her, but she died when I was just 2 years old. I guess I just remember Nana's stories so well. I remember her children and us going to New York to visit our New York relatives and them coming to our house a few times. And every year when watching New Year's Eve on TV my mother would always say" I wonder if the Natale's are there?"
Well a few years back my mother's best friend was out from California for a visit. I was asking her some questions about my mother's family and she says, "you do know that Aunt Helen was Nana's half sister?" I was floored and did not know anything about this. So I set out to find out more. So after a couple of tries I received Helen's death certificate from New York. Well that was confusing from the start! The informant was her husband, Louis Natale. It had her birthplace as New York? and her father listed was Emil Carrigan, mother was Catherine Gunther? Well my grandmother's father was Emil Gunther and her mother was Catherine McCarron. So I was thinking that Uncle Louie had reversed the last names and that her mother was also named Catherine. So continued to look for information. I tried to fine a marriage record for her but could not find one in New York or Philadelphia. I found them in census records and she was listed as born in Pennsylvania and that her oldest child, Anna Natale was also born in Pennsylvania. Then a couple of years ago I found another tree on Ancestry with her in it. I contacted the owner and found they were one of her great grandchildren. They had her in the tree with the maiden name of Carrigan. Told me that was the name they knew. Had only recently heard the name Gunther. I had the copy of her death certificate on my tree and I think it was the first time they saw it. This great granddaughter helped me with names in photos and it was great. then last year she said that her mother, Helen's granddaughter was to be in touch with me. So I gave her my phone number and on St. Patrick's day last year I had a call from my cousin Helen. We talked for a long time and I said I would send her what I had on Emil and sent that off snail mail. When I talked to her again she said that her Aunt Anna could not have been born in Pennsylvania because she new that her grandparents had not lived in PA. So another mystery?
So I had a breakthrough a couple of weeks ago when I found a new set of indexes for New York on Ancestry. In it I found the marriage record for Helen Carrigan and Luigi Natale. So I went to the NY City Archives and ordered the marriage certificate and record and called Helen to tell her I found it. Then yesterday it arrived! Her name was on there as Helen Carrigan and she was born in Philadelphia. Her father was listed as John and her mother was Catherine McCarron! So I had been going on the assumption that her father was Emil Gunther and the three sisters had the same father. But I was wrong, they had the same mother! and who is John Carrigan???? So when I called Helen this morning to tell her what I found I also had another idea to give her about Anna being born in Philadelphia. Anna was born 1 Oct 1914 and Catherine McCarron Gunther died 17 Sep 1914, just a couple of weeks before. So with the information that this was Helen's mother, she was most likely in Philadelphia for her mother's illness and death and did not get back to New York before having her child. I have a copy of Anna's death certificate so next I am seeing if Pennsylvania has a birth record for her.
So I guess you know that once again I have found that you should not give up because you never know how long it could take you to find the answer. I just looked at the date stamp on Helen's death certificate, February 4, 2003. So I have been working on this for 9 years.
So have fun and keep looking!!!!
Well a few years back my mother's best friend was out from California for a visit. I was asking her some questions about my mother's family and she says, "you do know that Aunt Helen was Nana's half sister?" I was floored and did not know anything about this. So I set out to find out more. So after a couple of tries I received Helen's death certificate from New York. Well that was confusing from the start! The informant was her husband, Louis Natale. It had her birthplace as New York? and her father listed was Emil Carrigan, mother was Catherine Gunther? Well my grandmother's father was Emil Gunther and her mother was Catherine McCarron. So I was thinking that Uncle Louie had reversed the last names and that her mother was also named Catherine. So continued to look for information. I tried to fine a marriage record for her but could not find one in New York or Philadelphia. I found them in census records and she was listed as born in Pennsylvania and that her oldest child, Anna Natale was also born in Pennsylvania. Then a couple of years ago I found another tree on Ancestry with her in it. I contacted the owner and found they were one of her great grandchildren. They had her in the tree with the maiden name of Carrigan. Told me that was the name they knew. Had only recently heard the name Gunther. I had the copy of her death certificate on my tree and I think it was the first time they saw it. This great granddaughter helped me with names in photos and it was great. then last year she said that her mother, Helen's granddaughter was to be in touch with me. So I gave her my phone number and on St. Patrick's day last year I had a call from my cousin Helen. We talked for a long time and I said I would send her what I had on Emil and sent that off snail mail. When I talked to her again she said that her Aunt Anna could not have been born in Pennsylvania because she new that her grandparents had not lived in PA. So another mystery?
So I had a breakthrough a couple of weeks ago when I found a new set of indexes for New York on Ancestry. In it I found the marriage record for Helen Carrigan and Luigi Natale. So I went to the NY City Archives and ordered the marriage certificate and record and called Helen to tell her I found it. Then yesterday it arrived! Her name was on there as Helen Carrigan and she was born in Philadelphia. Her father was listed as John and her mother was Catherine McCarron! So I had been going on the assumption that her father was Emil Gunther and the three sisters had the same father. But I was wrong, they had the same mother! and who is John Carrigan???? So when I called Helen this morning to tell her what I found I also had another idea to give her about Anna being born in Philadelphia. Anna was born 1 Oct 1914 and Catherine McCarron Gunther died 17 Sep 1914, just a couple of weeks before. So with the information that this was Helen's mother, she was most likely in Philadelphia for her mother's illness and death and did not get back to New York before having her child. I have a copy of Anna's death certificate so next I am seeing if Pennsylvania has a birth record for her.
So I guess you know that once again I have found that you should not give up because you never know how long it could take you to find the answer. I just looked at the date stamp on Helen's death certificate, February 4, 2003. So I have been working on this for 9 years.
So have fun and keep looking!!!!
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